{"href":"https://api.simplecast.com/oembed?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcounter-errorism.simplecast.com%2Fepisodes%2Fcounter-errorism-episode-14-bob-edwards-Erc5moYF","width":444,"version":"1.0","type":"rich","title":"Counter-Errorism - Episode 14 - Bob Edwards","thumbnail_width":300,"thumbnail_url":"https://image.simplecastcdn.com/images/b8ec0cd0-f452-4065-8f2a-4b82fd3caef4/447f2515-716d-4700-aa95-e6f2f5b5dc5f/jacclandhydetwoguysinterviewinganothergentlemanforapodcc0a7f7f1_0e39_4983_9c41_bcd42288d8cf.jpg","thumbnail_height":300,"provider_url":"https://simplecast.com","provider_name":"Simplecast","html":"","height":200,"description":"In this episode of the \"Counter-Errorism\" podcast, hosts James and Ken interview Bob Edwards at the 2025 Community of Human and Organizational Learning conference in Columbus, Ohio. The discussion centers on practical ways to improve workplace culture, shift leadership mindsets, and foster operational learning.\n\nHere is a summation of their key discussion points:\n\n**The Power of Curiosity**\nA central theme of the interview is that leaders must prioritize curiosity over having all the answers. Bob explains that even if a leader used to perform a specific job, they should approach current workers by acknowledging it's been a while and asking them to teach them how the work is done today. The group agrees that taking the time to be genuinely curious is crucial, noting that organizations need to free supervisors from excessive administrative tasks and Zoom meetings so they can actually get out into the field to observe and learn.\n\n**Changing the Narrative on Errors and Reporting**\nBob shares a story about a company whose leadership was embarrassed because they accounted for 70% of the state's reported dropped objects. However, a veteran worker pointed out that other companies simply weren't reporting their incidents. Bob emphasizes that high reporting rates are actually a positive sign of a healthy culture, giving the company an opportunity to fix things. He also highlights the need to accept human error, referencing the Marine Corps' understanding that a zero-tolerance approach for mistakes is unrealistic in complex environments. \n\n**Practical Psychological Safety**\nWhen it comes to making workers feel safe to speak up, Bob advises against using academic terms like \"psychological safety\" or holding meetings in HR conference rooms. Instead, leaders should go to the workers' actual workspace, on their shift, without a clipboard, and genuinely ask how they get the work done. He notes that you know an environment is safe when workers become \"painfully honest\" about their realities and workarounds. Crucially, leaders must thank them for this honesty and ask how to improve the system, rather than punishing them, because negative reactions create long \"industrial memories\" that shut down future reporting. \n\n**Focusing on the Positive and Human Connection**\nThe group discusses the importance of looking for what goes right during normal work, rather than just investigating failures and assigning blame. Ken shares a story about a military commander who would uniquely start meetings by asking for the \"meat and the berries\"—meaning he specifically wanted to know what the team did well and how they achieved success. This unexpected positive focus completely opened up communication. They also agree that this interpersonal respect and human-to-human empathy is foundational and can never be replaced by AI or technology.\n\n**The HOP Community and the Future**\nBob refers to the Human and Organizational Performance (HOP) movement as an \"industrial reformation\" and makes a strong plea for younger professionals to join the field, noting that they bring fresh perspectives that challenge older workers' biases. The hosts and Bob highlight that the HOP community is highly collaborative rather than competitive, with leaders actively supporting each other's podcasts and businesses. To illustrate this, they promote \"Tuesdays with Two,\" a free monthly Zoom gathering held on the first Tuesday of every month, where safety professionals from around the world meet to network and discuss ideas."}