{"href":"https://api.simplecast.com/oembed?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcounter-errorism.simplecast.com%2Fepisodes%2Fcounter-errorism-episode-15-david-woods-SiP3D7cK","width":444,"version":"1.0","type":"rich","title":"Counter-Errorism - Episode 15 - David Woods","thumbnail_width":300,"thumbnail_url":"https://image.simplecastcdn.com/images/b8ec0cd0-f452-4065-8f2a-4b82fd3caef4/3f2ffecc-b843-40ba-bb6f-2c0bc267c541/jacclandhydetwoguysinterviewinganothergentlemanforapodc90520b4d_2c17_40d7_ae16_84e091df16b4.jpg","thumbnail_height":300,"provider_url":"https://simplecast.com","provider_name":"Simplecast","html":"","height":200,"description":"In this interview recorded at the 2025 CHOL conference, hosts James and Ken speak with David Woods about systems thinking, resilience, and adaptability. \n\nHere is a summation of key discussion points:\n\n**Systems and the Law of Stretched Systems**\nWoods emphasizes that improving performance is fundamentally a systems issue. He explains that while plans, procedures, and automation are necessary, they have limits because real-world disruptions are inevitable. To survive, organizations need adaptive capacity. He introduces the **\"Law of Stretched Systems,\"** which dictates that when a new capability or technology is introduced, leaders rarely use it to lower the workload or create a safe buffer. Instead, they exploit the new capability to do more, faster, and in more complex ways, which immediately pushes the system back to the edge of its limits. \n\n**Coordination and Middle-Out Adaptation**\nWhen systems are pushed to their breaking point, simply throwing more people or mass at the problem fails if there is no coordination and synchronization across roles. Woods points out that during crises, successful adaptation is rarely top-down; it is **\"middle-out\" innovation**. He uses examples like the \"captain's war\" in Iraq and the COVID-19 pandemic to illustrate how middle managers and frontline experts (like military captains or hospital administrators and respiratory physicians) naturally bypass rigid, formal rules during a shock. Under pressure, they rely on informal, personal networks to share vital information, innovate new tactics, and secure resources.\n\n**Practical Advice: Multidisciplinary Learning Teams**\nFor a practical takeaway, Woods advises organizations to create a **multidisciplinary team of highly experienced experts** from across different functional disciplines. Organizations should value these experts as assets, giving them the time and authority to act as a \"ready to go learning team\" or a \"heart monitor\" for the company. This team can surveil operations, investigate persistent problems across departments, and actively learn from near-misses. To underscore the danger of ignoring early warning signs, Woods shares the story of a NASA spacewalk where a minor water leak in a suit was rationalized away, leading to a near-fatal drowning on a subsequent spacewalk. He uses this to teach the concept of the **\"justified sacrifice\"**—knowing how and when an organization should consciously choose to slow down production to investigate safety issues. \n\n**The Danger of the \"AI Gold Rush\"**\nWhen asked what he is currently focused on, Woods warns against the **\"instability and contradictions of the current AI gold rush\"**. He compares the current LLM boom to the first AI gold rush in the 1980s, noting that companies are aggressively pushing highly subsidized, seemingly \"free\" chatbots into the workplace. Woods cautions that executives are eager to use this technology to justify cutting human staff for immediate cost savings. He warns that this is a trap: once organizations eliminate their human workforce and become completely dependent on these systems to function, the technology companies will charge full freight, and the real, exorbitant costs of these AI systems will catch up to them.\n\nDavid would probably get a kick out of the AI tools used to get these show notes! "}