{"href":"https://api.simplecast.com/oembed?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.undiplomaticpodcast.com%2Fepisodes%2F164-ymTj8ctM","width":444,"version":"1.0","type":"rich","title":"Part II: Classical Realism Versus International Relations, Interview w/ Jonathan Kirshner | Ep. 164","thumbnail_width":300,"thumbnail_url":"https://image.simplecastcdn.com/images/d980016a-09a3-4544-a26a-b4f94e2fd242/e0895f71-d609-49d2-b568-57ef0fe31b78/square-20podcast-20cover.jpg","thumbnail_height":300,"provider_url":"https://simplecast.com","provider_name":"Simplecast","html":"<iframe src=\"https://player.simplecast.com/2e26fc83-9d58-4417-9587-4207994c23cd\" height=\"200\" width=\"100%\" title=\"Part II: Classical Realism Versus International Relations, Interview w/ Jonathan Kirshner | Ep. 164\" frameborder=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\"></iframe>","height":200,"description":"Part II of my conversation with Jonathan Kirshner about his new book, An Unwritten Future: Realism, Uncertainty, and World Politics. Kirshner explains how classical realists think about the “national interest\"; distinctions between realist and progressive political economy; what he doesn’t like about the “Thucydides’ Trap,”; the poverty of offensive realism; and how classical realism understands everything from British appeasement of Hitler to the Vietnam War."}